Have enough seen the light [and a man not there ]?

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beheard	Have enough seen the light [and a man not there ]?		Lead	[-]
Posts: 639 2-Aug-2008 01:27:33 LSD Denizen	Tags : None After another loss where outclassed in key areas is an understatement I wonder whether the Collingwood concept/collective/fans will face reality. The thing is, if you want to rebuild a team in the future difficult draft climate you need to aggressively trade B grade players to { hopefully } get a young A grade or homesick/disgruntled star. For that to happen there has to some cold realization that guys like Dids, Thomas , Pendles and C3 are definitely B grade and tradeable . I dont think anybody has fully agreed with my initial judgements on these players but FMG smell the coffee. And that includes board members [ eg Pendles is the new Simon Black]. Dids getting handball receives minus the run is just hiding his inability to get goals. And C3 is C3. But you would have to trade 2 of them and even then other clubs may baulk. If you cant your head around this overall concept at last the club will be stuck with them for 6-8 years as their value decreases. We missed the Josh trading window by about 6 years. He is so gone even for somebody who was never there. Taz like wise. I think it is probably too late anyway and I'm not confident about the young backmen either. I've tried to follow the party line with Brown but increasingly think he is a mediocre spud. And Harry God love him cant really play small or tall. Marty is just and the oldies are making up numbers. At a bigger level I dont think there is a coherent strategy possible from our club based on the beliefs I hear around the place. Maybe it's too big, too many opinions and too little hard football nous. I rate the the Essendon loss worse from a point of view watching the pace of Reimers and Lonergan [ yeah who ] cut us up. But consider this. For "other " reasons Buddy went as a number 5 pick. And we got killed in the ruck again by guys who werent #1 picks. If you have your wits about you picking players it would help even if there are no guarantees. But if you cant accept we have no real stars you cant start the process. [ I've always wanted to say "process"].
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BigMac	Re: Have enough seen the light [and a man not there ]?	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 643 2-Aug-2008 01:38:35	Anyone remember Beheard Island? I'm setting sail...ALL ABOARD! Right now, I regret ever leaving. Last Edited By: BigMac 2-Aug-2008 02:09:06. Edited 1 time.
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Clokenator		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1122 2-Aug-2008 01:43:14	BH the club is fucked. It has no concept of what it takes to put a flag winning team together. They get close and think, 'maybe next year we will have some better luck'. The good clubs actually say we weren't good enough, we have to take steps to improve our list. Carlton were ruthless in this manner offing so called older stars to the Aints. Cats go out and get Ottens. We just hang on and hope. I for one am so over Collingwood at the moment, they stand for nothing other than 'big crowds'. We will never see a period of dominance cos we don't have the balls, we might pinch one every 50 years or so at best. We are just making up the numbers and have been for a long time. You also have to question the leadership of the club. Leadership sometimes involves taking the some time unpopular course, sticking to it, and getting the benefits. Footy is no different. Look at Hawthorn. Ridiculed over Clarkson's game plan, getting rid of Hay and Thompson, sold games to Tassie and now look at them, set for a very strong period where they will probably get one or two flags. They have been lucky with Buddy but face facts, they had that many high picks they were bound to snag a freak somewhere along the way. If we don't do something and they keep racking up flags they will go past us in every way. Massive support amongst people my age and now Buddy is dragging the kids in. Did Collingwood have a plan and stick to it? We went for recycled players when MM arrived with some kids and fooled oursleves by making it to a GF or two. We went for Woey and other hacks to top up, got no chocolates and now face the prospect of Gold Coast and Western Sydney soaking up the talent for the next 5 to 10 years. We never go the extra year required to really build the list. No we will watch as Carlton, Hawthorn and probably even Essendon go right past us (again). We never fucking learn. Last Edited By: Clokenator 2-Aug-2008 01:54:11. Edited 1 time.
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DufflecoatSupreme		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 191 2-Aug-2008 02:02:01	Ha BigMac, I arrived there a while ago. Come on board! The view is pretty bleak, but at least it's reality. I feel like I just took the red pill. I don't know what's worse. Our appalling lack of confidence (I'm sure I spelt appalling wrong, but after my first night out on the booze for a while who the fuck nose), our total lack of midfield or ruck, or mick's incredibly bad coaching. Why the hell would you not even try the sack on buddy, at the very least for preparing for the future (we don't have). It's not as if it was going to cost us the game. Not that I'm really fussed, as far as I'm concerned that was a 46 point win tonight on my pre-game expectations. Oh and I lost count of mitchell's possessions, did he crack the ton? At worst a half century? He must seriously spank it till the knob falls off every time they play us. Playing without an opponent at this level, fuck me 6 ways from Sunday. As for dids BH, I don't agree with the hype, I reckon this year is comfortably his worst season knee injury aside (and I've been a fan in the past, so I can imagine your views). Agree that he does not belong midfield, has to be left up forward at the very least, where his lack of pace is less an issue, and he can actually be dangerous. If buddy could kick he would be the best player in history, by a comfortable margin. Sadist maybe, but I actually enjoyed watching him give it to us in the ring. At least we don't barrack for Richmond, imagine the migraines passing him up for tambourine man.
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cooldewd		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3885 2-Aug-2008 02:07:01	1977 was the last time we had a team good enough to win the requisite number of games to finish on top of the ladder after the H&A season - and they were a good honest side. 1969-1973 was the last time we had a team that had the genuine class that should have won a few flags - but a shock loss in the 1970 GF destroyed their self belief and they never regained it. 1990 was an odd year out inspired by a score of guys having their career defining year. Realistically, many LSDers were either not born or were kids when we last had a genuinely dominant team. That is not a criticism of LSDers who mostly have no idea what a dominant Collingwood team looks like. It is a bloody indictment of the club we support that seems to accept mediocrity as a badge of honour. "We're gunna win a flag this year" Yeah, right...if every other team fell over in front of us it might happen, but even then, you would never be confident. The Club has no balls and is wallowing in a mire of self congratulation on a wonderful back catalogue of premierships achieved back in the stone age. Sentimentality and nostalgia are wonderful - but it helps if you actually witnessed atleast some of those bloody flags. Most of us have only 1990...and in our life time, we may not have much more. The Dude Last Edited By: cooldewd 2-Aug-2008 02:10:45. Edited 1 time.
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Barhams run		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 90 2-Aug-2008 11:07:27	The Club not just the teams spiral has been obvious for years, to those that wanted to see it. Channel 9 paid Ed to do a Job he was not up to and moved him along once it was obvious he was not up to the job, we vote for Ed to do the job in the hope he was up to it. Now the time is coming to decide if Ed is up to bringing premierships to our Club.
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Clokenator		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1125 2-Aug-2008 11:21:55	Yeah, right...if every other team fell over in front of us it might happen, but even then, you would never be confident. Maybe we get Steven Bradbury to be our next Prez. Lets face it Eddie has complete control at the club. He gerrymandered Sally Capp onto the board via timing the retirement of a former board member, got Pert, shuffled Swan to make room and lost him in the process. He also targetted MM, there were no other applicants. Point being, if Mick is to be replaced there will be no talent search, the next coach will already have been selected by Eddie.
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Tarzann		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7801 2-Aug-2008 11:31:32	Yes, damn Eddie for having complete control at the club! LOL!
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Clokenator		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1126 2-Aug-2008 13:47:10	Tarzann wrote: Yes, damn Eddie for having complete control at the club! LOL! Tarz I am sure Carlton felt the same way about Elliot. Point being, a bit if consultation and use of experts makes sense. You would hope Eddie has learnt his lesson over Channel 9 ie that is not omnipotent (just close to it). If Eddie pulls off what I have heard he will I think we will be all pretty happy with things ohhh say after trade and draft period.
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beef42		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 225 2-Aug-2008 15:47:04	Sounds interesting Clokey, so we have packaged Toovey and Ben Kinnear (50 games in a 7 year career but I digress) for Daniel Kerr? This thread is depressing, the perverse satisfaction that I get at the end of a season like this that this will be the catalyst for the club to make some changes and get it right is tempered by Beheards post. I have hung onto the dream for a while (what choice is there) but clearly we are at the end of an era - a typical Collingwood era in which we were competitive, a couple of lost Grand Finals and some heroic finals performances but ultimately no cigar. I felt like I had time travelled last night and I was watching Collingwood circa 1998 so horribly inept were we. The midfield were simply smashed for pace, intensity and skill. With the greatest of respect the end is nigh for Cheesy, SSB, Tarks, Lonie, Holland,Wakes and possibly a few others. Big question marks over Josh, Pebbles and Leon for varying reasons. How quickly the list is managed in this regard I have no idea but clearly these blokes wont be the ones leading us to the promised land. It is a bit unfair to judge the forwards too harshly given our pedestrian and erratic inside 50 efforts. Buddy is a freak but he gets it lace out one on one more often than not. We bring it in high, slow and from the boundary, any forward would struggle. Cheesy's sprayed kick inside 50 for a turnover and goal when the difference had been cut to 10pts highlighted the difference between them and us. Our ruckwork remains laughable, so bad that even some Steve McKee games compare favorably (apologies Turtle). At least the club has attempted to address this with Wood but the jury is still out on him. On the bright side I think both Wellingham and Anthony have shown enough to persist with. And i would like to see a bit more of Shannon Cox before the year is out. The question of MM's future is too much to contemplate right now (the bourbon and prozac are wearing off) but whether its a fault or a virtue he is one seriously stubborn bloke. Or maybe they have got Sam Mitchell at good odds for the Brownlow, fucking hell, that was painful to watch. Nice to see we reacted quickly to try and get a bit more out of Heath Shaw as well, I mean it was only Round 8 against the Saints when he was tagged out of the game and everyone other coach has followed suit since then. Rambling like this is quite therapeutic.
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Tarzann		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7803 2-Aug-2008 15:47:30	Eddie's Ch9 thing was more about JP's general disdain for TV I think we have managed the list well from 2006, and just have to suck up the pain from the bullshit of 2002-2005. And keeping Josh too long.
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beheard	All aboard.	#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 640 2-Aug-2008 17:54:19 LSD Denizen	Bigmac, actually it's Beheard World . It was always going to happen but I might just revisit it from 2003 for the juniors. Ev , dont despair. You are free to visit Beheard World, although this is peak period. We offer a choice of 3 self contained football resorts using androids to simulate real life situations. Cutting edge robotics make them look and move like professional footballers [ well, some of them] Decide the package you want : The Player ; The Assistant Coach; The Board Member ; The Merchandiser. And for the ultimate deluxe vacation package , The Football Manager. You can feel what it's like being on the MCG, interviewed by Scotty or appearing at a royal commission. Choose from 2 grand final resorts ; Wewuzwobbed World and Wewuzwipped World. Each deliciously different , but with a guaranteed same result. The thrillseekers can visit Freefall World, where lack of ultimate success and uninspired recruiting collides with grandiose off field planning to cause an orgy of bloodletting and recrimination with a new coach/ board/ list /homeground / logo [ feel free to mix and match] Not one for the kiddies. Anyway Ev, do yourself a favour. Dissatisfaction guaranteed. Or have you seen it all before? Hmm. 5 years on and you would have to say that flag looks as far way as ever. A recession, an overgeared club and a flattened pub market may make Freefall World this years fave. Book early.
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BigMac		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 644 2-Aug-2008 18:13:40	So it was/is Chief. I do get the feeling the rides are the same, just with a new coat of paint. I'm not sure why I'm happy to be reminiscing?
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beheard		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 641 2-Aug-2008 18:43:16 LSD Denizen	We all just lerve thinkin about the good ol days. I wish I'd been there.
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The Collingwood Turtle		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2635 2-Aug-2008 19:32:31	I am about to head off to the CLUB42 Ball with the players and coaching staff attending. Will be interesting to feel the vibe of the playing group towards MM.
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Johnson26		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1513 3-Aug-2008 00:38:43	Whoever said it was similar to 1998 I agree with all the way. A la v the Bulldogs on the night Williams broke his jaw.
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beef42		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 226 3-Aug-2008 09:34:33	Johnno, my favorite memory from that period was beating Freo in the rain at the G to get off the bottom of the ladder for the first time about round 8 (BOG: S. Patterson) We did knock off Richmond later in the year as well, 3 Brownlow votes went to M.Richardson (Mark, not Matthew)
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Dale61		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 517 3-Aug-2008 13:23:41	Hey beheard, I know what the ride at Beheard World is like. At first, it gets you all excited, and has you anticipating a great time, then about half way through, it starts to wobble until, with the end in sight, the wheels fall off and leaves you searching for a way out of the rubble. It is then taken off-line to be tweaked and given a fresh coat of paint before it is unleashed on the unsuspecting public, who expect the ride to finally hold together until the end.
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Clokenator		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1129 3-Aug-2008 13:35:00	Yes Dale and all the time you are told it is the greatest rid in the world, that we have the best faciilties, best operators etc etc. What would be the slogan for BH world? No stickies - no entry'?
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corp elbow 1		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 654 3-Aug-2008 15:29:12	ahh same old same old that ride reminds me of the vomitron has you all excited then you have to vomit
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Lockyer24		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2133 4-Aug-2008 23:07:04	Whilst I have lost patience with a few of the older guys I only really want a half day ticket to Beheardworld at this point. Our younger guys do have some talent and its to be expected when the team is struggling they will be some of the heaviest hit. Its guys like Fraser, O'Bree and Johnson which have to carry the can the most - and this is the group who we need to make some tough decisions on. Rocca is about the only one who ever escapes criticism from BH but he has had more woeful games than anyone. Didak is very good but do we need him? Can we use him as currency to find that A grade midfielder which is hurting us the most? Time has come to decide whether we are on the right track, or get a new coach/gameplan and try and stockpile some draft picks using the Cats/Hawks method. Either road will have some short term pain but a possibly different outcome.
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